As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp. other dacs I have enjoyedin no particular order; I would not call this second tier; but I prefer what hear from my Select II to what Ive heard from these. That's the negative to going my route I guess. I would have loved if you heard them in the same system for a direct comparison. Sources: Hiby R6, Fiio x3II, Fiio x5II DACs: Dave, Yggdrasil, Hugo, Hugo TT, U12. Im participating to both learn and make suggestions where I have experience that may help. Or arm yourself with a nice bottle of red and pay a visit to@Stereophilus. Thirdly, having suggested that the brightness issue may lay elsewhere, I will shortly post a suggested tweak directly to both HMS and DAVE - that I have found to increase the "weight", "solidity" and "analogueness" of the resulting sound. I do however like the i2S connection better than any other HiFiMan Ananda, SR Orange fuses, Taiko Audio Daiza platforms, Startech FMC optical network link, Oyaide EE f/s2.0 V2 mains spurs, Akiko Audio tuning sticks, GIK Acoustic TriTraps/panels. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system.. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd. I have heard a lot of top DACs at shows or other systems but not in my own. Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. Paired with performance increases, our modular design ethos increases flexibility for future updates and product support, guaranteeing a long-term product investment. Audiogon Discussion Forum I like Aqua Formula xHD and Totaldac Six. IMHO an audio recommendation in a forum is just an advice on what is worth listening and the reason why we think so. definitely up there with the best dacs in the world. I haven't heard MSB or theDenafrips DAC. I have had Dave in my system. Sent from my SM-G928V using Computer Audiophile mobile app. I would,however, like to say we are highly selective over the brands we represent and believe they are excellent value. Audiogon Discussion Forum Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. I've had many world class DACS in my studio over the years and the Crane Song is as good as any no matter the cost. Always use!! A Chord DAC converts to analog via Chord's "Pulse Array DAC" which is a discrete circuit, similar to the discrete circuit used in the MSB DACs (but not the same). Mola Mola Pre/dac review compared to DAVE dac - Page 2 - DAC - Digital I agree with your statement. that it is difficult to say you have the best in regard to dacs but Rockna is Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet >Antipodes K30> Shunyata Omega USB> Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120, Amp& Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 >Aerial 10T, Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra,ShunyataDenali v1 andTyphon power conditioners,Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma power cords, QSA Lanedri GammaRevelationinterconnect,Shunyata SigmaEthernet,MIT Matrix HD60speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels. turns out that with the Extreme USB slightly pulls ahead of the Ethernet with the Renderer, then adding the Pro USB there is now a significant step up over the Renderer. It's embarrassing. Of the ones you mentioned I'd be most tempted by the Emm Labs DAC 2x though if you can get a used higher-end Esoteric, you should jump on it. MSB DACs also use a processing chip to handle oversampling and digital filtering (not sure if this chip is an FPGA or other type processing chip, but it is a high speed digital processing chip). Once you add the second discrete PS, and a module or two for it to work, the price goes over $23-24K. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? You already have a very top tier DAC. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. This is a very odd one to describe but came to the fore on tracks like Pan Eros from World Of Drums and Percussion. Best DACs comparison test result [[My Subjective Opinion]] What did you think with the Chord Dave vs Emm Labs Dac2x? I suppose what Im saying (badly) is that the Discrete was true to the file it was being fed and I did enjoy hearing it allowed me to pull small details out of the mix Jazz at the Pawn Shop (DSD128) felt more lifelike and in the room than I am used to and raw tracks such as Phutures Acid Trax did sound rougher and really basically recorded. Lots of time it Chord DAVE - DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion - Audiophile Style I've had some excellent preamps in my system (Dartzeel, Absolare, Robert Koda, Kondo). Who knows ?! Edited November 11, 2020 by seadog. Too objective for subjectivists; too subjective for objectivsts. I don't like Dave with or without upsampler but I do like Auralic G2 with their upsampler and clock. If I want to build a complicated system, I won't consider DAVE because for the position of DAC, I can choose from other brands (Totaldac, NADAC, Rockna, Prismsound 8XR etc) at the same price. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. The demo model came in brushed aluminium but you can also get black. Anyway, the little bit of extra detail on the strings, the attack, and decay are all there to be heard and its a marvelous thing to listen to. I was upgrading it in this order and still could not believe every time it sounded better. After a year of listening to various components I'm content. So I personally prefer to listen to different DACs just like I prefer to listen to analog as well as digital. Unfortunately not, I'm going the second hand route as I've done with most of my setup. A modular I/O card keeps even the discrete DAC flexible, repairable, and upgradeable. I've tried it in my system and I don't like it. But digital, potentially, can change things. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. JavaScript is disabled. Mike, Scott has been absolutely wonderful in his support, despite my purchasing the Found-Music 2A3s used (from Art S.) He has visited once and is planning another visit after the trip your way. I recently bought a DAC with a digital volume control precisely to bypass the preamp, but when I compared the two approaches there was very little between them. There are a lot of people that absolutely love the M-scaler. The MSB simply offered more of everything and to my ears proved again that a true multi bit converter/ladder DAC is superior to delta/sigma or FPGA DACs. Strangely, this new review is not displayed when you select the review folder on the homepage. Blimey my RME ADI 2 DAC looks to have better performance at a fraction of the cost, /===============================================================/, DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface, Combination Audio DAC and Headphone Amplifiers. CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE | Page 934 - Head-Fi.org It may not display this or other websites correctly. Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. Point 75 EmmLab Dac2 I paid 9K$ for this on 2010. And I make Best DAC Quality Ranking list. Also; recently MSB introduced a new interface that optimizes USB and adds fibre to reduce noise, the MSB Pro USB. Main Menu You might want to consideradding oneof Chord's Upscalers, either HugoM scaler, or the Blu Mk. You are using an out of date browser. Copyright Hifi Pig and Hifi Pig Magazine, Big Pig Media LLP. I submit dealers use the statement "component X competes against much more expensive components" far too often. Almost all gear I hear is pretty good and some are great but the most expensive ones are not universally the best to my ears. I expected a lot better. Its an interesting setup with everything from design through to milling the chassis to building the circuit boards being done in-house. Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. I would just add budget and the other components in the system are major factors to consider. With the Bartok now quite a few $$$ more, the Tambaqui represents a fantastic price v performance ratio that would be at home in most highly resolving systems. The only other items in the chain were the Stack streamer and a pretty well-sorted network setup. It may not display this or other websites correctly. November 11, 2020 in Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio. Stuart Smith finds out. Can I ask how you procured all those DACs? EAR FILLERS HiFi Pig Playlists on Qobuz, Transatlantic Dispatches: A New World Disorder, Astell&Kern Launch Three New Products At High End Munich 2022. The Pro USB is offered as a stand alone module for users who already have an MSB DAC that is equipped with a Pro ISL input as well as a starter kit with a Pro ISL input and everything you need to get up and running. Concluding that there is some kind of problem with using an FPGA vs. what MSB does is not technically supportable. MQA decoding Perhaps thats a bit of an odd example for me to use as its a bit World Music but you are also made aware of the rightness of timing on percussive techno tracks. No matter what ice cream you prefer, I prefer something else. After reading that review, and remembering the reverence APL had back in the day, alongside the Stahl Tek and Trinity dacs that were the heavy hitters 10-15 yrs ago, I was just curious as to whether . The SQ is amazingly good. You might want to consider adding one of Chord's Upscalers, either Hugo M scaler , or the Blu Mk. Focal Utopia ~ LCD i4 ~ ETHER FLOW open/C ~ LCD-2.2/XC ~ Nighthawk ~ K10 custom ~ JH Angie, Chord mscaler // Chord TT2 // Oppo PM-1 (Artisan silver headphone cable) // Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm // WAVE Stream bnc cables // Kef LS50 Meta. My first serious audio system was Garrard turntable, Fisher Int(SS), ADS bookspeaker bought on 1978. The MSB Discrete, as I mentioned, came with two power supplies but you can operate it with just one with the supplied doodad. I also looked at the MSB Discrete DAC but everything thing was an extra cost option (USB, AES/EBU, power supply, etc.,) and expensive. There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. I just heard DAVE directly connected to MacBook Pro via USB without any expensive cables, headphone amplifier, power conditioner. As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. By I've yet to see a system with direct connections eliminating the preamp which wasn't improved by a adding a good preamp back into the mix! Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. Cheers @Stereophilus While were committed to long lasting products that hold their value, we realize audio systems are always evolving. But dont take our word for it. All rights reserved. those surpass any other digital choice. With the MSB there has been a great deal of attention paid to ensuring the signal stays as pure as possible and is not affected by other parts of the DAC or outside sources; modular construction, dual power supplies, isolation of USB etc. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. And this is where I had a problem with this DAC, though mostly the problem was of my own making. Were honored to be recognized by the industry for bringing you the most lifelike sound we can. Analogue Volume Control 1dB from 0 to 106 Deactivable by menu, Dimensions ChassisWidth : 432 mmDepth: 305 mmHeight without feet: 51 mm. @ricred1, I would like to suggest you take a look at the Mola Mola Tambaqui when it arrives later this month I understand. Its not bombarding you with information, but it is a notably more defined sound with regards to the spatial information and the way that elements sit in the mix a tad more solidity and more of a sense of the stereo image being wider and deeper and with instruments and sounds occupying a definite space of their own. Thank me laterLoL. Id imagine that upscaling refers to increasing bit-depth (like from 16 to 24 bits) which adds "vertical" resolution to the waveform in theory, improving amplitude resolution making subtle low-level detail more natural and audible (among other things) if done correctly. sounds just like the Dave. The Discrete is around 11,000 whilst the Select is 120,750 with its power base. To my ears it makes music sound unnatural. Much appreciated. Hifi Pig is part of the Big Pig Media LLP group of companies. auditioned the Rockna Wavedream Edition DAC. I'm also a very patient person and can wait for the right bit of kit at the right price to come up secondhand. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. When a dealer post something you have to take it with a enormous grain of salt. had if for 2 years now. Nothing was amiss. Not sure why you would spend so much on a DAC when the Crane Song Solaris is available at $1,949. I hope to also have an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC8 (for DSD512) and a Chord Dave (DSD256) in my system soon (with HQPlayer). Subjective grading of DACs that I had heard during last one year period I think people buy what they like. Too many DACs> Too many amps> Too many headphones. I wish you would have had the Totaldac D1 Seven to try. @shkong78 Thanks for sharing your listening impressions of the Lampizator Pacific vs the MSB DACs as well as what you miss about the Pacific vs your Chord combo. However, to get this level of separation and detail within the soundscape the DAC is clearly having a very important role to play. Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. And I've learned to be careful and not generalize how a component will sound based on show conditions or other systems. The end result is a digital experience defying expectations. this was how I originally decided to purchase the Select II as I was trying to hear another dac at shows that could do what I heard the Select II doing at a lower price. Elegant design. UPnP Protocol The evolution of the original irreverent and irrelevant and non-authoritative site for headphone measurements, i.e. Less experience with Dave on DSD, plus Rob claims to no longer decimate. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by mtoc, Jun 9, 2016. retail client forgets that most audio stores and audio distribution companies The Premier is a super-high-resolution, completely silent, utterly dynamic component that lets music flow through it less hindered than through anything else I've heard. My friend who owns the Diamond DAC IV prefers the MSB. connection to the dac chip. Best DAC you ever heard? | Steve Hoffman Music Forums what Im saying is that comparing dacs also must take into account of all the interface advantages of each particular dac. Fixed. Many competing DACs will have a more comprehensive display at this price and, more commonly still, an app designed for intuitive access via smartphone and/or tablets. The Dave is VERY lovely on PCM, and pretty decent on DSD, but DSD is not its raison d'etre. You must log in or register to reply here. Sablon Audio King/Prince power cords throughout. As I listen to this tune a few times it strikes me that the Discrete is just that (discrete), it doesnt seem to add a great deal of itself to the file it is playing. Each clock is made up of two independent clocks but only one is used at any given time so as not to add unwanted noise to the circuit. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). Whether its a software update or a leading-edge modular component, were here to help the most valued aspect of MSBour customers. As a matter of fact, I'd appreciate getting your impressions. Chord states "DAVE is the most advanced DAC we have ever made. I have great synergy in my system and see no reason to listen to every new DAC out there. I mean is it audibly noticeable? I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick While it's an easy setup to wrangle at a show, it does seem like it wasn't doing either component any favours! And now that my system is much more resolving, it's possible that the differences could be larger and my preferences could change. The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. This is purely speculation based on browsing the internet over the years and internalising pro/con reviews from users. Strangely from this company is lack of any anti-aliasing on the text causing pixels to not be seen in the fonts chosen! Others might disagree but these are my findings. It's too damn expensive, full stop. The Pro USB was developed to offer a multi part USB solution that features complete electrical isolation and all the performance of MSBs proprietary Pro ISL input. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. Unless they have the exact same components as the end user, it's impossible to tell that customer how component X will sound in their system. I have a PS Audio DSD ATM and it is also on the warm side which is good, but I'm thinking I need something more neutral due to my speakers being fairly warm and full bodied in their own right to take my system to the next level. The Base module has two outputs (high and low) depending on whether you are outputting to a preamplifier or directly to a power amplifier. Only hifi shops and shows hear and there. I have the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC, waiting for an upgrade. The Chord DAVE was also on my list, but I decided to pass (my Chord retailer was very 'pushy' and not helpful). T&A Dac8 (for DSD512) or Lampi Atlantic for any native rate DSD playback. DAC Comparison Reference DAC Modules 4x Hybrid DAC Clock The Femto 33 Digital Inputs 4x User Replaceable Input Slots Optical and Coaxial input module Included Analog Outputs Preamp XLR Output Module - 150 Impedance RCA output available with external adapter Analog Inputs XLR Analog Expansion Modules RCA or XLR Input RCA or XLR Output Up to 8X DSD Hmm.. MSB Technology's Discrete DAC was the best DAC I'd heard in my systemuntil the MSB Premier showed up. Some very good advice here. The Merriam-Webster online dictionary tells me that the definition of high-fidelity (HiFi) is the reproduction of an effect (such as sound or an image) that is very faithful to the original and it would seem to be reasonable to assume that this is the goal of audiophiles around the world. After that you are GOLDEN. The DACs are individually shielded and thermally-bonded and multiple units are used per channel, which MSB tells us increases performance and lowers output impedance. Vega DAC 6/10 As dynamic as the Weiss, but a little too edgy in sound emphasised presence made female voices a bit hard on the ear. If you go reference you will never look back. It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. Regular readers will appreciate all that is taken from the MSB website and I make no apologies for not really understanding the electronics. I haven't yet come across one DAC that is best and will completely dominate other great DACs across all audio evaluation parameters. Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and social innovators to drive real-world impact through games and immersive media Here is the list : Trinity Designs [Trinity DAC] TotalDAC [d1-Six] Aqua Acoustic Quality [Formula xHD] MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option . But it need good system matching. Then we have the Integrated Clock module and Im starting to get the whole modular approach to the design of the MSB DAC. Now to include the HMS. This is because one PSU is supplying juice to modules including the screen and USB input etc but not to the output module. Fair enough if you know some of the posters here and their listening preferences. How does the PS Audio DirectStream DAC compare to the Chord DAC? - Up to 32 bit - 768kHz. Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Our products include our in-house designed viton feet, but any audiophile M6X1 foot can be installed to personalize your system. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. Others might disagree but these are my findings. Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites, Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Would I pay extra for the second supply? frequency response graphs, CSD waterfall plots, subjective gear reviews. 2. Im sure it does have a flavour of its own, but from my standpoint, it sounds like a very neutral and transparent DAC. Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream IGNORED Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream . Yeah, im thinking a post lock-down GTG is in order. This effect was evident on track after track but didnt feel like it was overly exaggerated. Im getting a bit away from the review proper, but Im sure you can see why I have added that little diversion. Firstly, that was a very impressive list of high end components you have listened to. Digital inputs : RCA coax, AES/EBU XLR, 2x Toslink optical, 2x module slots, word . Chord Msb Dac Dave Vs Discrete [FZ8OTP] - amministrato.to.it And yes, you can improve it more by adding nice power source and cable. Thanks guys! The LED display, slaved to the audio clock, is refreshed between data processing to drastically reduce electrical interference. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. Best DACs comparison test result [[My Subjective Opinion]] The Premier DAC Features - MSB Technology dac at a reasonable price. Great Dac but for me a NOS DAC (Metrum Adagio) won the contest over all the others Dacs I have tried so far. It's pretty funny how everyone gives their personal pet recommendation with the utmost confidence that the buyer will like it. I havent heard the Rockna. DACs Overview - MSB Technology In terms of sound quality, it's the best digital front end I . Like the rest of the DACs in the MSB range, the Select DAC is modular in its architecture with each of the modules being produced in house, as outlined above. It would have been a different outcome though with the Cyrus pre-amp I previously owned, which cast a veil over everything. Sit back and be immersed. Funny how Rob Watts drones on and on about noise modulation, and then we see his product performing like this.. now one might not exactly call this noise modulation, but it definitely something to avoid, especially given the price tag. which make some people prefer this one to MSB Select II Point 85 Chord Dave and Mscaler (or Blue II transport) This one give transparent and 3D soundstage with excellent details. The remainder Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. Yeah, you and me both- the look I got wasn't as funny as the one I got from the Sennheiser stand when I asked if they had any HD600 or HD650, instead of all those Momentums and so forth, but still. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. I could easily live with any of these. Rori is definitely welcome. Like the rest of the main body of the DAC and the PSUs, the remote is hewn from a block of aluminium. They both use FPGA for their decoding. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. This kind of sound really appeals to me and was really excellent to experience on lots of tunes, but was especially evident on tracks from Rumours with every part of the mix being identifiable as unique. We used PCM (16/44,1 to 24/192) and DSD 64 and 128 for the comparioson. There is scale on bigger productions and intimacy on smaller-scale recordings and pieces, It wont make a pigs ear into a sows purse, but its majestic on really good recordings, Its very detailed but not harshly so actually, its a very easy component to fit in a system and live with, Its not cheap and you will want both PSUs once you compare with just one, No analogue inputs to make it the heart of a full system, You know that MSB have stuff that is out of reach financially and potentially better, Price: 11,000 plus 1,650 for a second power supply. The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. Sounds shrill on my workstation and work laptop. In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. Now, this is an important and quite a cool lesson in what is going on with the two PSUs. You must log in or register to reply here. I don't understand why Chord DACs have to be so damn ugly! I can see the problem with this unit. I could not so, after 2 years of trying, I bought it. This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. For some folk, a highly resolving and accurate system may well be described as being over-analytical, and on the other side of the audio fence, some will suggest that some systems sound nice but flawed. Like x 5 List Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. So this was headphones straight out of the DAVE? and as I said earlier there is no "best" when it comes to dacs or Any MSB fans here ? - Page 3 - DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense.
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